New England Review

Meet the Interns

Kate and Andrew

Kate Sadoff and Andrew Grossman, summer 2022 interns

Kate Sadoff and Andrew Grossman spent the summer at New England Review, producing two episodes of the NER Out Loud podcast, to be released in August and October. They also designed a new display for Davis Library, created posts for our website, weighed in on cover art, and helped out wherever needed. Here they interview each other for our “Meet the Interns” series.

Should we start with the basics? Hometown, year, major, fun fact?

KS: Los Angeles, CA, 2023.5’, Creative Writing, I hate doing those. 
AG: Greenwich, CT, 2023.5’, Creative Writing, I also hate fun facts.
KS: Fun fact is that Andrew and I are part of the same original Feb class. 
AG: Fun fact is that we hadn’t spoken to each other until this year, oops.                

Andrew, what was your favorite part of this internship?

KS: Andrew is too busy editing our podcast to answer this, so I’ll answer instead. Even though I was extremely nervous, my favorite part was interviewing authors for our podcast. We chose the pieces we were both drawn to. The more we read them, the more we loved them, so hearing authors speak on pieces we became genuinely attached to was special and rewarding. Our conversations ended up flowing much more organically than I expected.  

AG: I’m done editing, for now. Inevitably I will return to LogicPro as a podcaster’s job is never done until Carolyn tells me I have to be done. I thoroughly enjoyed coming to a beautiful bright office and getting to read exciting new pieces from so many different authors. I also loved reading slush pile pieces and pieces from the new issue back to back. Never has being a creative writer felt so approachable and yet so out of reach.  

Kate, what’s your moon sign?

KS: Pisces. Yours?
AG: Virgo. 
KS: I knew you reminded me of my mother. 
AG: My mother’s also a Virgo. Curious.
KS: And your Sun?
AG: Capricorn. But you knew that already. 
KS: Sorry, I wanted this to come off a little more natural. Makes sense. I love Capricorns.
AG: I forgot you were a Gemini. That makes sense too. Andrew grimaces and breaks the fourth wall. 
KS: What’s that supposed to mean? Kate scoffs. 

They both scroll on the CoStar app.

KS: We have to work to understand each other’s moods and emotions. Andrew, I never know what you’re feeling. 
AG: It’s hard opening up; being vulnerable is something I’m working on as a Cap, but if I can learn to trust a Gemini, I can learn to trust anyone. 

Do you want to know a secret about Andrew?

AG: No. 
KS: He doesn’t know his left from his right. 
AG: I just think it’s funny that you asked “Am I clear on the left” when you were in the driver’s seat. Food for thought.

What’s a tip for writing good emails? 

KS: Don’t be yourself. 
AG: Just avoid them at all costs. Text messages too. If you wait long enough, Kate will do it. 
KS: I can’t answer my own text messages, Andrew. I’ve been getting bogged down in email punctuation. How to be lighthearted with exclamations without sounding superficially ecstatic, how to use periods without sounding too stern, how to alternate periods and exclamation points without sounding like a robot—can anyone help me?  

Earliest book crush?

AG: Kate from the Mysterious Benedict Society 
KS: Bunnicula
AG: ?
KS: …

Formative books from your childhood?

AG: I remember being intrigued by the cover of When You Reach Me and reading it over the course of a single day because I was so hooked. It was baby’s first twist ending, but my mind was thoroughly blown; it showed me the power and beauty of a well written story. 
KS: When I was in fourth grade, I read this book called Diary of a Chickabiddy Baby by Emma Kallok. She wrote the book when she was ten years old and it was published when she was thirteen. I became obsessed with the book, and started copying the main character, borrowing phrases from the text, ultimately deciding it was feasible for ten-year-old me to be a published author too. I then submitted a story to Stone Soup, titled “How the Ladybug Got Its Spots.” Needless to say, I faced rejection early. I still wonder, though, if I’d be a STEM major if not for Chickabiddy baby.  
AG: Honorable mentions include Because of Winn-Dixie and The Miraculous Journey of Edward Tulane, and The Tale of Despereaux. 
KS: In agreement with Andrew, anything by Kate DiCamillo, the Malory Towers series by Enid Blyton, the Judy Blume canon, The Evolution of Calpurnia Tate by Jacqueline Kelly, Esperanza Rising by Pam Muñoz Ryan, and the Wayside School series by Louis Sachar. 

Bonus round, rapid fire: Where are you? What’s your favorite book? What’s your biggest unfulfilled dream? What’s your biggest regret? What was the last nightmare you had?

KS: NER office swivel chair, Sylvia by Leonard Michaels, opening a diner in the midst of the desert that only serves different kinds of pancakes, not taking a language at Middlebury, I’d prefer not to comment.  
AG: NER office floor, Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders, Hiking the PCT, not having our interns’ outing at the route seven used book shop, Kate’s goose impression makes its way into my nightmares pretty often.

Horoscope do’s and don’ts? 

AG: DO focus group, white Flag, erasers, DON’T grasping at straws, keyboard smash, pocket lint. 
KS: Pretty apt. You look ready for a keyboard smash. Mine are DO phone calls, waxing poetic, FM radio, DON’T plot twists, feedback loops, half-truths. 

NER internship do’s and don’ts. 

Do
KS: Look through the earliest exclusive NERs.  
AG: Watch for the baby wagon that passes the office once a day. 
KS: Pay attention during “staff meetings” and wait for fantastic tangents. 
AG: Pet Oscar. 
KS: Try Carolyn’s kombucha (if she offers it). 
AG: Keep working on getting NER verified on Twitter and IG. 
KS: Triple check names and spellings. 

Don’t
AG: Use zoom to record an interview (go see Gary [WRMC]).
KS: Take the earliest exclusive NERs from the shelf. 
AG: Smell Oscar’s breath. 
KS: Try to print from the intern computers (Eli will be on the phone for hours). 
AG: Try to change the Wikipedia article (but actually do, sorry in advance). 
KS: Sit in the comfy chair unless you’ve already committed to napping in the office. 
AG: Come to Marquis Trivia ever, because we’ll beat you (and there’s never space).
KS: Take it personally. 

Kate and Andrew’s compiled book recs (we realized early on in our friendship there was some overlap): 

Kate and Andrew’s aforementioned favorites: 
Lincoln in the Bardo (George Saunders) 
Sylvia (Leonard Michaels) 

For classics: 
East of Eden (John Steinbeck)
Franny and Zooey (J. D. Salinger)
White Noise (Don DeLillo)

For something a bit heady:
Unbearable Lightness of Being (Milan Kundera)
The Argonauts (Maggie Nelson)

For the beach:
An Absolutely Remarkable Think (Hank Green)
Nothing to See Here (Kevin Wilson)
Sharp Objects (Gillian Flynn) 

For tears: 
We the Animals (Justin Torres)
Tiny Beautiful Things (Cheryl Strayed)
Men We Reaped (Jesmyn Ward)

Excellent short stories:
Sonny’s Blues (James Baldwin)
The Moon in Its Flight (Gilbert Sorrentino)
The Masters Castle (Anthony Doerr)

Favorite non-fic essays: 
The Fourth State of Matter (Jo Ann Beard)
Living Like Weasels (Annie Dillard)
Derivative Sport in Tornado Alley (David Foster Wallace)
Slouching Towards Bethlehem (Joan Didion) 

Breaking: Andrew and I just decided to start a book club this year. Let us know if you want to join! (Currently Full 2/2, accepting applications for our waitlist). 

TBR:
The Night Watchman (NER author Louise Erdrich)
Nine Stories (J. D. Salinger)
The Grapes of Wrath (John Steinbeck)
How Strange a Season (Megan Mayhew Bergman <3)
Jazz (Toni Morrison)
A Visit from the Goon Squad (NER author Jennifer Egan) 
Norwegian Wood (Haruki Murakami)

John Vaaler and Eleanor Pontikes

Meet the Interns

Our Spring 2022 interns, John Vaaler and Eleanor Pontikes, sat down to chat about their experience at NER.

Eleanor: Okay, I think we’re rolling!

John: Eleanor, tell me about what led you to the New England Review.

E:  I vividly remember walking into a professor’s office back during my second semester at Middlebury, and I came to show her something I was working on and ask for advice on how to become a writer. She had many great recommendations but one of them was to get an internship at the New England Review. I participated in the reading submissions group for a few years and here I am during my senior year! 

Tell me about your path here, John!

J: I love writing film and book reviews, and wanted to get the inside scoop on the publishing process. My advisor, Jay Parini—who cofounded NER—recommended the job, and I am so glad I got to intern this Spring. 

I didn’t realize going into the internship the amount of work it takes to keep a publishing house or literary journal on its feet. It’s not just editing: there’s fact-checking, contract work, design. 

E: I was also surprised that we pay our authors since not many literary journals compensate authors for their work. The administrative side of the journal was also fascinating to me, and I enjoyed working with Eli on the various platforms involved in the process of publishing.

J: I didn’t know how many drafts and rewrites go into a story before it’s ready for publication, or how collaborative the editing process is between NER and its authors. I assumed it was more like submitting a letter to the New York Times, where the editors might be the main tinkerers of the submission after you send it in. It’s a very collaborative process and I didn’t appreciate that until working here.

One favorite task in the office is reading the mail-in submissions, which are often especially lively.

Eleanor, tell me what stuff you are involved with on campus. 

E: I’ve definitely overextended myself this semester! But I run the Women’s Club Soccer team, am president of the fly fishing club, MiddFly, and am a senior editor of Clover Magazine, Middlebury’s first fashion publication. 

To create some balance between work and extracurriculars, I love going to the gym and walking around town. I usually treat myself with a latte every morning too. I think going to different coffee shops with friends has been one of my favorite self-care rituals this semester.

What about you, John?

J: I sometimes contribute to the Middlebury Campus. I’m a member of our Omega Alpha Social House, where I used to be the social chair. I am also a peer writing tutor at the CTLR (Center for Teaching Learning and Research), where I help freshmen students with their papers. A lot of the work I do with their papers is teaching them not so much to write well, but rather how to write well in an academic context. It’s a skill and not a talent, so it’s pretty great just helping all of these really brilliant first years make their first steps as academic writers. And I, too, love to go to coffee shops with friends. 

E: And what’s your favorite one?

J: Little Seed.

E:  I’ve found I enjoy different coffee shops for different needs. I go to Little Seed when I need to sit and work for hours, Haymaker when I want to talk to friends for hours, and Royal Oak when I need a break from everything!

Are you reading anything for fun right now? 

J: Finals are looming, so I really shouldn’t be reading anything . . . but yes, I am making my way through Temporary Kings, the penultimate book in Anthony Powell’s bittersweet, very funny A Dance to the Music of Time series. He’s a little like Dostoyevsky . . . Dostoyevsky by way of Wodehouse. The characters often think they’re living in a tragedy, but the series is obviously comic. 

What have you been reading?

E: I was traveling this weekend and started Mary Oliver’s Upstream. I’ve read various poems of hers through my time in the Environmental Studies department but it’s been lovely reading this collection in its entirety.

John: I love her poem “Wild Geese.”

E: “Attention is the beginning of devotion” has always stuck with me. Oliver’s keen observation of humanity and the natural world compel me as both a reader and writer. 

J: What is your ideal reading environment?

E: I think this office deserves some credit in this interview because it’s such a cozy, warm place! Overall, my ideal reading environment is just comfy enough so I don’t fall asleep because the Davis library chairs are way too comfortable, and I fall asleep every time I’m in there.

But ultimately, I need to have a cushioned seat and a drink in hand while reading—coffee or tea, of course.

J:  I am a believer in what Virginia Woolf once said: You have to read alone in a room of your own. But there are exceptions to Woolf’s rule. The other day I was waiting for a friend in Two Brothers Tavern, and I read some of Temporary Kings for a few minutes. Reading Anthony Powell in a bar is an interesting experience. A lot of the characters in his novels do that sort of thing more frequently than they probably should. 

E: What is your favorite task here in the office?

J: My favorite task was copyediting the pieces we published on the website. After reading some of them in the reading group last summer, it was a real treat to see NER authors get the publicity their incredible work deserves. 

E: I think my favorite task was doing the author book posts every month. Every month we post new releases from authors who’ve been published in NER. This past weekend, I wandered through a bookstore in Colorado and saw Ocean Vuong’s Time is a Mother featured in their “New and Noteworthy” section. I wrote about his new poetry collection for the April new book post. NER authors are so talented and it’s a rewarding experience to have even a small role in their path to success, one that maybe began with the New England Review. Gosh, it also makes me want to read and read and read! (And then maybe one day write my own “New and Noteworthy” book!)

You’re graduating in a few weeks! Any plans for the summer and what’s to come?

J: I’m moving to New York and starting a job at an expert network company! Currently trying to find an affordable room in Manhattan. And what are your summer plans?

E: I’m going back home to Colorado, returning to work at a fly shop, and waiting to hear back from remote summer publishing internships, so I’m a little stressed (nervous laughter).

J: You mentioned your passion for fly fishing. What is your favorite fly fishing story?

E: Hmm. I’d have to say the story in Norman Maclean’s A River Runs Through It when Paul is swept through the Blackfoot River, holding his rod high above the water with a trout at the end of his line. 

For me, there are many moments I can think of, but my best fishing stories are less about the size of the fish and more about the places I’m in and the people I’m with. 

Do you have a favorite genre of submissions to read and go through?

J: I enjoy the nonfiction submissions, particularly the reviews of works I have never read before. It’s so exciting reading non-academic reviews, especially when the subject is a topic that the author is clearly passionate about.

How about you?

E: I also tend to gravitate towards nonfiction, especially essays centered on adventure and self-reflection. I am especially fond of Thomas Dai’s “Driving Days” from NER 42.2. 

J: I absolutely loved Mark Harman’s erudite, hilarious piece published in NER 43.1 “Borges Translates Joyce Who Translates Himself.”

It was so nice talking with you about your experience at NER, Eleanor!

E: You too, John! I wish you all the best, this summer and beyond!

NER Interns: Where are they now?

Elisse Ota

Elisse Ota ’11 talks to NER intern Bel Spelman ’23 about the influence learning Japanese has on her writing and storytelling.

Bel Spelman: Where are you now, geographically and professionally? 

Elisse Ota: My husband and I have been waiting for the past year and a half to move to Japan, but, unfortunately, due to the pandemic and the closure of Japan’s borders, we’ve been held in limbo. Currently, I am living in California and am at work on a collection of short stories that I hope to finish this year.  

BS: What was one skill you developed as an undergraduate—either in school or through internships—that most benefits you today in your professional work?

EO: One of the greatest gifts I received at Middlebury was learning a new language, specifically Japanese. When you’re learning a new language you wade clumsily towards meaning and you don’t always get there via words alone. You find that you need other things to help you—body language, facial expression, intonation—and, as you gather up every clue you can find to understand what is being said, you realize that communication is not merely a matter of grammar and words, and that what is said reveals as much as it conceals. Often, what’s unsaid is the most important thing, especially in a high-context culture like Japan’s in which politeness dictates certain verbal acknowledgements that conceal one’s true feelings to preserve group harmony. As a learner of Japanese, I both learned how to speak Japanese and how to pay close attention to things other than language to understand what a person truly thought and felt. This ability to both use language and to read the subtext of a conversation has helped me tremendously as a fiction writer. People are complex. They don’t often say what’s truly important to them, and this is the reason I love storytelling. It is a way to show the truth when it’s too difficult, or painful, or coarse, or simplistic to tell it directly.     

BS: Do you have any book recommendations?  

EO: I recently finished Hannah Coulter by Wendell Berry, which I thought was fantastic!  It’s a beautifully rendered portrait of a small farming community in Kentucky, and I appreciated Berry’s elegant and heart-wrenching exploration of what it means to hope while shedding expectations. I also love William Trevor’s work, especially his short story collection After Rain, and Mary Yukari Waters’s collection The Laws of Evening is one I go back to again and again. Tessa Hadley’s book, Bad Dreams and Other Stories, is also a gem!

BS: Is there a past project that you’re particularly fond of?

EO: Out of all the stories I’ve written, “Girl From the Moon,” which was published in Narrative, is one of my favorites.  I am also looking forward to the publication of another story called “The Paper Artist,” that will come out as a Ploughshares Solo this fall.  

NER Interns: Where are they now?

Camille Kellogg

Camille Kellogg ’17 talks to NER intern Bel Spelman ’23 about editing manuscripts, books as mirrors, and reading widely.

Bel Spelman: What do you remember from your NER internship?

Camille Kellogg: I remember my time at NER vividly. I was so excited to intern there. At the time, I was writing my thesis, so I would leave the library and tramp through the snow over to the NER office, which is this lovely, cozy building full of books. It was a very warm place, in every sense of the word. Everyone who worked there was so kind and friendly and put me at ease right away.

At NER, I got to sort query letters, format website posts, choose art for the website, proofread pieces, and read submissions then discuss them with the team. One of my favorite tasks was editing audio recordings of authors reading at Bread Loaf: I got to listen to incredible readings from Garth Greenwell, Natasha Tretheway, Peter Ho Davies, and more.

Interning at NER convinced me that I wanted to work in publishing. I looked at the NER team and saw a life I wanted to lead. It’s a lot of work and it’s not all reading and editing (there’s plenty of paperwork!) but the work was inspiring and exciting. When I got the issue of the magazine we’d worked on and held it in my hands it made me very sure that this was the kind of future I wanted.

BS: What were some of the steps that brought you to Bloomsbury Publishing?

CK: Once I graduated from Middlebury, I attended the Columbia Publishing Course to get an overview of the publishing industry. When the course ended, I crossed my fingers and moved to New York without a job. I actually had a broken arm at the time from a rugby injury, so I only brought one suitcase with me! I applied to as many editorial assistant jobs as I could find and got hired at HarperCollins Children’s Books. A few years later I moved over to Macmillan, but I was only there for about a year before my entire imprint was shut down during the pandemic. They say if you work in publishing long enough, you’ll eventually get laid off, so I’m hoping that was my one time! While I was unemployed, I spent my time working on a book of my own, which is being published by Penguin Random House next year. After four months, I was hired at Bloomsbury Children’s Books. I’m now an editor here, working with the wonderful Bloomsbury team and acquiring books from truly incredible authors.

BS: How does your work challenge you?

CK: Editing a manuscript is always challenging, no matter how many times you do it, because every book needs something slightly different. The first time you read a manuscript through, you know there are parts that you love and parts that feel off. Then you have to sit down and figure out why things feel off. Is it the pacing, the character development, the plot? Once you can identify the problem, then you can work with the author to come up with a solution.

The biggest challenge in publishing, though, is always time management. There’s so much to do! There’s always paperwork to fill out, emails to send, and submissions to read. The job is never really “done.” I always wish I had more time, especially for reading.

BS: Bloomsbury has a focus on publishing children’s and young adult stories. What do you enjoy about working with these stories?

CK: I decided to go into children’s books because, as a queer person, I didn’t see myself in books growing up. It’s so important for kids to see themselves in the stories they read—it helps them develop confidence and feel like they can be the hero of their own story. I wanted to help make sure every kid gets that experience. Being a kid or teen can also be really scary and overwhelming, so I tend to be drawn towards books that don’t shy away from the darkness of childhood but instead show readers how to find light when things get dark.

Kids and young adult books are also fun. One of the goals of every book I publish is to teach young people to love reading, to publish stories that they don’t want to put down. It’s hard to take yourself too seriously when you’re editing chapter books about dragons or YA novels about K-pop stars. There’s always a note of fun in the work I do.

BS: Any advice for college students looking to enter the publishing industry?

Camille Kellog (right) and a fellow intern in the NER office.

CK: The best advice I can give to anyone who wants to work in publishing is READ. Read a ton of books in the genre you want to work in and read RECENT books. When you go to an interview, you want to be able to talk about books published in the last two to three years, not just the books that you read in your English classes. Read a really wide range of books, too: commercial books, literary books, bestsellers, flops, everything. When you finish a book, think about what worked in the book, what didn’t, and what you would suggest changing if you were the editor. Doing this helps you get to know the current publishing market and also develop your editorial skills.

BS: Do you have a long-term goal for your editorial career?

CK: My long-term career goal is to publish a lot of wonderful books, do my absolute best for my authors, and help to put more stories out into the world for people who might not have seen themselves in stories before. That’s also the same goal I have for my career as an author: my debut novel, which is a queer adult romcom, comes out in 2023 and is for queer people who feel lost or uncertain about how to navigate the world. It’s the book that I desperately needed when I was younger to tell me that things were going to be okay.

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